Underneath It All
In today's fickle music business ("Here today, gone today," as Chris Rock once famous declared), four years is an absolute eternity. That's how long it's been since Isaac, Taylor, and Zac Hanson--those lovable flaxen-haired scamps who first mmmbopped their way into our hearts back in 1997--released their last album, and during that time, the boys have done a lot of growing up: Taylor got married and became a father; the whole band relocated from their homebase of Tulsa, Oklahoma to New York City; they split from their former major label and founded their own independent record company, 3CG; and they recorded their third proper studio album, Underneath, producing most of it themselves and working with esteemed songwriters like Matthew Sweet and the New Radicals' Gregg Alexander. Clearly, these talented brothers aren't falling victim to the Child Star Syndrome that has plagued countless other artists who found fame and success so early in life. Instead, they are thriving, and so is their fanbase, which remains passionate and loyal despite having to suffer through four years without any new Hanson music.
Tay, Ike, and Zac recently dropped by LAUNCH's studios to perform a gorgeous acoustic version of their Underneath hit "Penny & Me," after which they sat down with LAUNCH editor Lyndsey Parker to chat about their new indie-label venture, the current state of the music industry, the Internet's effects on music, and their aforementioned steadfast-and-true fans. Here's what these fine young men had to say:
LAUNCH: Tell me about your new label, 3CG Records, and why you chose to go this route. What in the last four years led you to this point?
ZAC: The reason we chose to release our new album on our own independent label...well, we can't go forward without saying that you wouldn't leave your label if you were completely happy, so there is that. But I think we wanted to do something that was exciting and something that we were passionate about--taking on completely the business side of the music business. Something that we were excited about challenging.
TAYLOR: And I think, in general, we just were excited to do something different, and we were excited to really set ourselves up for the future in a way that was different than just being creative and just being artists. Also, we really want to be able to help other artists. We really want to be able to bring other music forward to new audiences, and really be involved in that way. I mean, we're not just interested in just being "Hanson." We want to write and produce for people. We want to score movies. We want to do things that are outside of just the confines of being in this band. And creating the record company, it gives you a lot of great opportunities. It gives you an avenue to express yourself in different ways. Most importantly, starting this record company was an opportunity to really get closer to our fans, and really build better a relationship with our fans.
LAUNCH: How has your fanbase changed? Most of your fans were children in the beginning. Have they grown up with you?
ZAC: Well, since our second record, This Time Around, four years have passed. So when you look at the fans now, the fans are four years older! That's one of my favorite things, is to look at the people who have come forward from Middle Of Nowhere and then to This Time Around and now to Underneath, which has just come out. Just to see the fans grow and change with Hanson, and with the music that we make.
TAYLOR: Yeah, I mean, you can be 40 years old or you can be 10 years old and be a fan--and we've seen it all--but definitely our peers are the most devoted. They're the hardcore fans.
ISAAC: And they're the majority of the fanbase.
TAYLOR: Yeah, with the majority of the fans that are traveling and coming to shows all over the country, it's amazing people to see people that are college age--you know, finding their life, deciding what they want to do with their life. And that are really still passionate about this music during a really important time in their life. I think it's a really exciting time to be in this band because we really feel like we can touch those people and really be involved in their lives at a time when they're going to make a lot of really important decisions.
LAUNCH: Do you feel, in a way, that you sort of have a clean slate, since there are people who may have been too young when you first came out, so for them, Hanson's a brand-new band?
ISAAC: Sure, sure. I think, hopefully, every record that you release is a new interpretation of you.
TAYLOR: That's kind of your job, in a way.
ISAAC: It's another chapter, a new slate. You're reinventing yourself every time. Obviously you're not going to go from doing pop-rock to doing hardcore rap, or something like that. Obviously that's not going to happen...
TAYLOR: Why not, why not?
ISAAC: I don't know...um, I just thought that maybe we shouldn't...
TAYLOR: Just as a band, you're always growing. And I think we've taken this to a different place, producing most of it on our own. We've always produced--since I was, like, 12, we've produced our own albums--but we took on production in a more robust way on this album. We had a lot of amazing collaborations. With every album, we're just taking it forward, and what's amazing about the position we're in now is we really have the opportunity to bring forward more and more who Hanson is in a more clear way, 'cause we're really building a team of people who are working with us and for this record company, 3CG Records. Some people ask us, "Do you guys ever worry about misconceptions about your band or this and that"? And I think the only way you can dispel misconceptions, whether you're Aerosmith or whether you're Paul McCartney, is to just be who you are, and let that come out. And that's really the job of 3CG Records, and the job of our band, is to just keep making music.
ZAC: 3CG Records is us.
LAUNCH: What are the misconceptions you're talking about?
ZAC: You know, there was just an article written that said we were from Australia! That's a misconception. Whether it's that, or whether it's people not knowing what our music is.
TAYLOR: Like, "Aren't you guys from Sweden? Aren't you from Australia?" It's just about educating people on who we are musically.
LAUNCH: So who are you musically these days? What's the biggest difference about this album and the last two?
ISAAC: I think the biggest thing that is very clear about this record is kind of the intimate elements, the full breadth of the music. There's some more space...it's more articulate, more easily accessible. Underneath articulates the wide array of music that we make, I think, in a more accurate way than any other record of ours in the past, because it really goes from extremely mellow to just full-on pop/rock, just, you know, letting your hair down, just banging on the guitar. I'm really excited about the record for all those reasons. I think it really does show a large part of who we are in a much more clear way.
TAYLOR: It's always just about taking it forward. I mean, you can't stand still. You can't sit around and ask people to be interested every time if you're just kind of cookie-cutting it every time.
ZAC: You can't ask people who you are. You have to show them.
TAYLOR: You have to lead people to get excited and be passionate and be activated by what you do.
LAUNCH: Is it true this album took three years to make?
ISAAC: Between two and a half and three, yeah.
ZAC: Most of last year was spent touring acoustically. We made an acoustic EP in a studio with about 150 fans around us, and then we went out and we did acoustic shows all across the country in intimate venues and clubs, all the way from Trees in Dallas to Carnegie Hall. We ended the tour in Carnegie Hall, and that's such a pinnacle venue for your musical career. But also to end an acoustic tour that way, it's built so well for acoustic music, you just sort of stand on that stage and look at the crushed red velvet seats and the gold gilding and huge white dome and four tiers of seats and opera-style boxes, and you just go, "Damn!"
TAYLOR: A lot went into making this record. I mean, there were a lot of big decisions, producing most of it on our own. A lot of collaborations. There was a transition with the decision to start a record company, and building a record company, and kind of coming up with the plan to do that was a big thing. All those things take time, you know. And also, when you make a record, it's got to be the right record. It's got to be ready to come out. And we wrote, God, 80 songs over the period of this album. We were always writing. And we already have another whole batch of songs ready for the next record. A lot of creation went on during this process. Even though we were anxious to get music out for a long time, all the steps that had to happen for us to release it independently and to produce the record and to collaborate with a lot of great people, all those things took a certain amount of time. It's amazing that it's come together the way it has.
LAUNCH: Doesn't running a record label detract from your ability to focus on the creative aspect of being in a band?
ZAC: A lot of people, they go, "Wow, you've got a record company. Doesn't that make you, you know, fall away from the music? Doesn't it add an extra barrier? Doesn't it make your mind more...full?"
TAYLOR: It does, somewhat.
ZAC: Yeah, but for us, what it's really about is making our minds less full. To be able to go, "Let's not worry about that. Let's bring this back to people who love making music, who are passionate about the music they make." And then there's the people on the other hand, who are the fans, who wanna communicate and wanna come to shows and wanna buy records and wanna experience this thing that you've made, and make that relationship two, instead of three.
TAYLOR: It's not just an independent release, also. I mean, really, there's a lot of independent labels that are non-majors, that have built up a name for themselves as a genre or a kind of a specific type of label. But really, this is not only an independent release, this is a self-release. This is a label built to facilitate releasing Hanson music, and then eventually releasing other music, but it's not built on the shoulders of any other corporate structure.
ZAC: It's totally built on the shoulders of the ones you see right here!
TAYLOR: Yeah, it's set up to be able to release the music the way we want to release it and build that fanbase. And I think that's a big defining factor. The mantra with 3CG Records will always be, whether it's a self-release or a release by other artists, we'll always be about doing the things we've done, which is to build an audience, to really establish the relationship, and allow that to flourish and put the music up front. And no matter what the artist is, whether it's rap or whether it's rock or whether it's pop or whatever it is, that's the most important thing. It's building that connection and building that relationship of trust with your audience. That's the thing that will have them come back time after time.
LAUNCH: Have there been things you were able to do with this record, creative freedom-wise, that you weren't able to do before?
ISAAC: I think it is important when you're making a record that you're doing different things no matter what time in your life it is, no matter how many albums you've had in the past. So I think doing it independently did not necessarily change the creative process on an immediate level...
TAYLOR: 'Cause we've always been control freaks!
ISAAC: Yeah, exactly, exactly! [laughs] We've always been very hands-on, very involved, and sometimes have driven people who work with us a little bit nuts. So I think when it comes to actually releasing the record, I think the way that we were able to focus our energies on a more specific strategy and message and so on, that's really the big difference. Creatively, it's very much the same as far as a working environment, although this record, I think, is more organic and more kind of raw and in-your-face.
TAYLOR: I think because of where our minds were when we were making this record--we were all thinking about the self-release and kind of where we would go with that, and just the future of this music--I think that affected the creation of this album in a positive way. It's really just about freedom. It's about the excitement. Every time you go out to do something it's like when you're a little kid on Christmas Eve and you're like, "Oh my God, I just can't wait!" You're on the eve of something exciting, and all your options are open. And we have so much freedom. We can do whatever we want. And there's also something with the evolving industry: There's a lot of great people that don't have jobs; they have been at great companies and have had great heritage, and we can pull them into our team and go forward and build this company. But again, it's all just comes back to the music. That's what it's all about. That is the only thing that keeps it real. That's the only thing that makes it worth the work and the dedication.
ZAC: Bringing it back to where your question started, which is whether having an independent company changed how this record was made and how this record was released, I think the biggest difference is that we're able to put the bar here [holds hand at head height] instead of the bar being way up here [holds hand high in air above head]. We say, "You know what? We're an independent company. We're a small company. All our focus is on if we can be successful enough to make another record--and then with that record, be successful enough to make another record after that." Because that's what we're here for. That's what drives us as musicians: the passion for making music that affects people.
LAUNCH: Is it ever humbling to be on your own label now, having been on a major label where you were expected to sell millions of records?
ISAAC: Well, the advantage is it doesn't impair you, being independent. It does not necessarily impair you from being able to be successful.
TAYLOR: It's not about saying that the success level that we're shooting for is medium success as opposed to huge success. The real point is your business model allows you to only have to have a small amount of success. The issue with the structure of a lot of the major companies is it's become imperative to have great success or it's a loss. Everybody knows that this is a very risky business. The job of an independent label is to be smart and say, "How do we do this in a way that can allow us to build our fanbase and continue to put out music and give it to fans?" And believe me, it doesn't take $100 million to make that happen. It doesn't take $10 million. It doesn't take $5 million! It takes great songs and then a few focused people that are really passionate. So what it's really about is building a company whose business model says, "We're not in the hole so far that if we don't sell a bazillion albums, we're gonna have our shirts be taken off."
LAUNCH: Do you think labels like 3CG point to the direction of the music business in the future?
TAYLOR: You know, I don't know if exactly what we're doing is the future for every artist. I don't know if it's the future of the music business. I do know that we're not the first to want to self-release an album or to have devoted fans or to be passionate about our music. That's happened many times. And it hasn't always worked and it hasn't always not worked. It's been successful many times. But I know that for us, this is really our answer. This is our answer to a really interesting time in the industry and a really interesting time in music and in the world. I think it's an example of what's happening with businesses. I think it's an example of what's happening with the world economy. I mean, I think it all kind of goes together. But our focus is making great music and touching our fans. I do think it would be exciting to see more artists get back to that. And as long as artists are getting back to that idea, and keep their focus on the things that matter, whether they're with a major label or whether they're on a indie label or whether they're playing gigs 300 days a year, that's the right place to be.
ISAAC: Yeah, there is no right or wrong choice for anybody. Every artist has to make a decision for themselves--what they think their position is, where they think they can grow and not grow, what they need to take for themselves and what they need to let someone else deal with. I think in our particular case, we just felt like this was the right decision for us.
TAYLOR: I do think that, like any company or any business, if the music industry doesn't wake up and remember they're not indispensable, they're gonna all fall flat on their faces. You can't just go along and try and set up a pattern that's just going to work every time, like, "If we scrutinize this and develop the scientific structure, then every time we put this out it's going to work over and over and over and we can all sit on our asses and wait for the checks to come." That doesn't work. The key is not major versus minor versus independent. The key is to be focused and to continue to reinvent and to continue to be humbled by the audience. The audience and fans are the only ones that are gonna keep it alive. And that's the danger with the industry right now, is everybody--and I mean everybody--got cocky thinking they didn't have to work to keep their fans excited and keep them coming back to the well. And I think quality control went downhill. The job of artists is to not let that happen, and the job of the future music executives is to be the quarterbacks and continue to say, "Look, I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna be calling the plays. And I'm gonna be setting up these artists to succeed." That's the thing that people are going to respond to.
ISAAC: We've got to always remember that the most important thing, the only people that really matter, are the fans. They're the ones who buy the records. They're the ones who keep all of us afloat. And if you don't respect them and take into consideration how they feel about music on any level...
TAYLOR: You've got the Internet, you've got information everywhere. There's all kinds of different cultures. Everything's thrown together. It's a massive melting pot. You find a lot of great music. It's all there. So our job as artists is to continue to set the bar really high, as far as what the standard is. I mean, the standard should be Prince's live show, not Britney Spears's live show. The standard could be, "Well, I could sing as well as the American Idol people that didn't make it," or "I could sing as well as Aretha Franklin." You've got to set up a standard. That's what we're shooting for.
ZAC: I think, hopefully, when people look at us and they hear our music, the passion has to be there. People have to feel that from music. They have to listen to a song and go, "I feel it. I got it. It's there." It's got to be something more than a vocal track. It's got to be a piece of someone.
LAUNCH: You just mentioned the Internet. The Web's been blamed a lot for the sorry shape of the music industry right now. Do you agree or disagree?
ISAAC: I'd actually like to take this question, 'cause I actually just talked with the L.A. Times about the one-year anniversary of iTunes and all this stuff. The way that I think the Internet has affected things overall is that people now have the ability to research and find music in a way that they didn't have before. Which I think is a massive advantage for an artist and for an audience. But I think there's also this double-edged sword, which is that the industry and artists were slow to recognize the fact that the Internet was not only just a research tool but also a commerce tool. That has been a little bit negative. But I think the end result is that the audience has the opportunity to find music in a more comprehensive way than they ever have. A little band in Tulsa, Oklahoma can post their songs on their website and sell 30,000 records in the Philippines because some fan heard a song, bought the record from the website, and then took it over to a Filipino radio station, and the station loved it and played it, and all of a sudden, their independent record that was made in Tulsa, Oklahoma got released and sold 30,000 copies. I'm talking about a band who actually had that happen--a friend of mine from Tulsa who sold 30,000 records in the Philippines because of the Internet.
ZAC: I think there's a couple of important things to think about when you think about the Internet and you think about music. Neither of them will ever go away. The Internet is here. Music can't disappear. Music is the soundtrack of people's lives. It guides you, it carries you, it helps you through those hard times. It helps you through the happy times. It's indispensable.
TAYLOR: Nuclear holocaust might eliminate the Internet...
ISAAC: Yeah, that's true, but it will eliminate a lot of things.
ZAC: It'd still be rebuilt! [laughs] The Internet is an amazing tool, and it's not going away because there are too many advantages, like the immediate contact with people. And I think what Ike was saying about the ability to have a comprehensive research of music is so true. Fans no longer have to rely on a band's one single on the radio. They can go and find a whole plethora of the music that that band makes, from covers to albums to one-offs with other bands. And hopefully, that can be seeded in the fans and in people who love music and people who buy music. You've just got to support artists. If you love the music they make, then you want to support them by going to concerts, by buying albums--because you want them to release another record. You want them to come out with new songs and new material. You want them to not have to work at Burger King. You want them to be able to focus on making great music that can hopefully change your life and help you make it through.
TAYLOR: We're in an era where the MTV generation of people judges things based on visuals first, and what people are talking about with the Internet is it being a thing that's going to make things more and more fickle, but I actually think it's the absolute opposite of that. I think the Internet is gonna counteract the idea of one-hit wonders because it causes people to actually have great music--because there's so many options that if you don't step up, you're just gonna be at the bottom of the barrel. If you don't step up, you're not even going to get a look because there's so many options and it's so available.
ISAAC: People will only download one of your songs, as opposed to the whole album! As opposed to 12 of your songs, 'cause the other 11 songs kind of suck.
TAYLOR: They don't have to go buy the album. There's not one avenue where you can go to the one department store, like it was 50 years ago, to buy everything. At the department store, it was all there, it was the only place. Now, you've got a million strip malls, and the Internet. Now you can see it all, buy it all, check it out, taste-test it, and then maybe buy it. You hear the song, think it's cool, check it out on the Internet. Boom--there's their website. I think it's gonna be a rebirth for the idea that you can hear the music first before you judge the color, creed, attitude, and dressing style of a particular artist. So artists have to step up.
Tay, Ike, and Zac recently dropped by LAUNCH's studios to perform a gorgeous acoustic version of their Underneath hit "Penny & Me," after which they sat down with LAUNCH editor Lyndsey Parker to chat about their new indie-label venture, the current state of the music industry, the Internet's effects on music, and their aforementioned steadfast-and-true fans. Here's what these fine young men had to say:
LAUNCH: Tell me about your new label, 3CG Records, and why you chose to go this route. What in the last four years led you to this point?
ZAC: The reason we chose to release our new album on our own independent label...well, we can't go forward without saying that you wouldn't leave your label if you were completely happy, so there is that. But I think we wanted to do something that was exciting and something that we were passionate about--taking on completely the business side of the music business. Something that we were excited about challenging.
TAYLOR: And I think, in general, we just were excited to do something different, and we were excited to really set ourselves up for the future in a way that was different than just being creative and just being artists. Also, we really want to be able to help other artists. We really want to be able to bring other music forward to new audiences, and really be involved in that way. I mean, we're not just interested in just being "Hanson." We want to write and produce for people. We want to score movies. We want to do things that are outside of just the confines of being in this band. And creating the record company, it gives you a lot of great opportunities. It gives you an avenue to express yourself in different ways. Most importantly, starting this record company was an opportunity to really get closer to our fans, and really build better a relationship with our fans.
LAUNCH: How has your fanbase changed? Most of your fans were children in the beginning. Have they grown up with you?
ZAC: Well, since our second record, This Time Around, four years have passed. So when you look at the fans now, the fans are four years older! That's one of my favorite things, is to look at the people who have come forward from Middle Of Nowhere and then to This Time Around and now to Underneath, which has just come out. Just to see the fans grow and change with Hanson, and with the music that we make.
TAYLOR: Yeah, I mean, you can be 40 years old or you can be 10 years old and be a fan--and we've seen it all--but definitely our peers are the most devoted. They're the hardcore fans.
ISAAC: And they're the majority of the fanbase.
TAYLOR: Yeah, with the majority of the fans that are traveling and coming to shows all over the country, it's amazing people to see people that are college age--you know, finding their life, deciding what they want to do with their life. And that are really still passionate about this music during a really important time in their life. I think it's a really exciting time to be in this band because we really feel like we can touch those people and really be involved in their lives at a time when they're going to make a lot of really important decisions.
LAUNCH: Do you feel, in a way, that you sort of have a clean slate, since there are people who may have been too young when you first came out, so for them, Hanson's a brand-new band?
ISAAC: Sure, sure. I think, hopefully, every record that you release is a new interpretation of you.
TAYLOR: That's kind of your job, in a way.
ISAAC: It's another chapter, a new slate. You're reinventing yourself every time. Obviously you're not going to go from doing pop-rock to doing hardcore rap, or something like that. Obviously that's not going to happen...
TAYLOR: Why not, why not?
ISAAC: I don't know...um, I just thought that maybe we shouldn't...
TAYLOR: Just as a band, you're always growing. And I think we've taken this to a different place, producing most of it on our own. We've always produced--since I was, like, 12, we've produced our own albums--but we took on production in a more robust way on this album. We had a lot of amazing collaborations. With every album, we're just taking it forward, and what's amazing about the position we're in now is we really have the opportunity to bring forward more and more who Hanson is in a more clear way, 'cause we're really building a team of people who are working with us and for this record company, 3CG Records. Some people ask us, "Do you guys ever worry about misconceptions about your band or this and that"? And I think the only way you can dispel misconceptions, whether you're Aerosmith or whether you're Paul McCartney, is to just be who you are, and let that come out. And that's really the job of 3CG Records, and the job of our band, is to just keep making music.
ZAC: 3CG Records is us.
LAUNCH: What are the misconceptions you're talking about?
ZAC: You know, there was just an article written that said we were from Australia! That's a misconception. Whether it's that, or whether it's people not knowing what our music is.
TAYLOR: Like, "Aren't you guys from Sweden? Aren't you from Australia?" It's just about educating people on who we are musically.
LAUNCH: So who are you musically these days? What's the biggest difference about this album and the last two?
ISAAC: I think the biggest thing that is very clear about this record is kind of the intimate elements, the full breadth of the music. There's some more space...it's more articulate, more easily accessible. Underneath articulates the wide array of music that we make, I think, in a more accurate way than any other record of ours in the past, because it really goes from extremely mellow to just full-on pop/rock, just, you know, letting your hair down, just banging on the guitar. I'm really excited about the record for all those reasons. I think it really does show a large part of who we are in a much more clear way.
TAYLOR: It's always just about taking it forward. I mean, you can't stand still. You can't sit around and ask people to be interested every time if you're just kind of cookie-cutting it every time.
ZAC: You can't ask people who you are. You have to show them.
TAYLOR: You have to lead people to get excited and be passionate and be activated by what you do.
LAUNCH: Is it true this album took three years to make?
ISAAC: Between two and a half and three, yeah.
ZAC: Most of last year was spent touring acoustically. We made an acoustic EP in a studio with about 150 fans around us, and then we went out and we did acoustic shows all across the country in intimate venues and clubs, all the way from Trees in Dallas to Carnegie Hall. We ended the tour in Carnegie Hall, and that's such a pinnacle venue for your musical career. But also to end an acoustic tour that way, it's built so well for acoustic music, you just sort of stand on that stage and look at the crushed red velvet seats and the gold gilding and huge white dome and four tiers of seats and opera-style boxes, and you just go, "Damn!"
TAYLOR: A lot went into making this record. I mean, there were a lot of big decisions, producing most of it on our own. A lot of collaborations. There was a transition with the decision to start a record company, and building a record company, and kind of coming up with the plan to do that was a big thing. All those things take time, you know. And also, when you make a record, it's got to be the right record. It's got to be ready to come out. And we wrote, God, 80 songs over the period of this album. We were always writing. And we already have another whole batch of songs ready for the next record. A lot of creation went on during this process. Even though we were anxious to get music out for a long time, all the steps that had to happen for us to release it independently and to produce the record and to collaborate with a lot of great people, all those things took a certain amount of time. It's amazing that it's come together the way it has.
LAUNCH: Doesn't running a record label detract from your ability to focus on the creative aspect of being in a band?
ZAC: A lot of people, they go, "Wow, you've got a record company. Doesn't that make you, you know, fall away from the music? Doesn't it add an extra barrier? Doesn't it make your mind more...full?"
TAYLOR: It does, somewhat.
ZAC: Yeah, but for us, what it's really about is making our minds less full. To be able to go, "Let's not worry about that. Let's bring this back to people who love making music, who are passionate about the music they make." And then there's the people on the other hand, who are the fans, who wanna communicate and wanna come to shows and wanna buy records and wanna experience this thing that you've made, and make that relationship two, instead of three.
TAYLOR: It's not just an independent release, also. I mean, really, there's a lot of independent labels that are non-majors, that have built up a name for themselves as a genre or a kind of a specific type of label. But really, this is not only an independent release, this is a self-release. This is a label built to facilitate releasing Hanson music, and then eventually releasing other music, but it's not built on the shoulders of any other corporate structure.
ZAC: It's totally built on the shoulders of the ones you see right here!
TAYLOR: Yeah, it's set up to be able to release the music the way we want to release it and build that fanbase. And I think that's a big defining factor. The mantra with 3CG Records will always be, whether it's a self-release or a release by other artists, we'll always be about doing the things we've done, which is to build an audience, to really establish the relationship, and allow that to flourish and put the music up front. And no matter what the artist is, whether it's rap or whether it's rock or whether it's pop or whatever it is, that's the most important thing. It's building that connection and building that relationship of trust with your audience. That's the thing that will have them come back time after time.
LAUNCH: Have there been things you were able to do with this record, creative freedom-wise, that you weren't able to do before?
ISAAC: I think it is important when you're making a record that you're doing different things no matter what time in your life it is, no matter how many albums you've had in the past. So I think doing it independently did not necessarily change the creative process on an immediate level...
TAYLOR: 'Cause we've always been control freaks!
ISAAC: Yeah, exactly, exactly! [laughs] We've always been very hands-on, very involved, and sometimes have driven people who work with us a little bit nuts. So I think when it comes to actually releasing the record, I think the way that we were able to focus our energies on a more specific strategy and message and so on, that's really the big difference. Creatively, it's very much the same as far as a working environment, although this record, I think, is more organic and more kind of raw and in-your-face.
TAYLOR: I think because of where our minds were when we were making this record--we were all thinking about the self-release and kind of where we would go with that, and just the future of this music--I think that affected the creation of this album in a positive way. It's really just about freedom. It's about the excitement. Every time you go out to do something it's like when you're a little kid on Christmas Eve and you're like, "Oh my God, I just can't wait!" You're on the eve of something exciting, and all your options are open. And we have so much freedom. We can do whatever we want. And there's also something with the evolving industry: There's a lot of great people that don't have jobs; they have been at great companies and have had great heritage, and we can pull them into our team and go forward and build this company. But again, it's all just comes back to the music. That's what it's all about. That is the only thing that keeps it real. That's the only thing that makes it worth the work and the dedication.
ZAC: Bringing it back to where your question started, which is whether having an independent company changed how this record was made and how this record was released, I think the biggest difference is that we're able to put the bar here [holds hand at head height] instead of the bar being way up here [holds hand high in air above head]. We say, "You know what? We're an independent company. We're a small company. All our focus is on if we can be successful enough to make another record--and then with that record, be successful enough to make another record after that." Because that's what we're here for. That's what drives us as musicians: the passion for making music that affects people.
LAUNCH: Is it ever humbling to be on your own label now, having been on a major label where you were expected to sell millions of records?
ISAAC: Well, the advantage is it doesn't impair you, being independent. It does not necessarily impair you from being able to be successful.
TAYLOR: It's not about saying that the success level that we're shooting for is medium success as opposed to huge success. The real point is your business model allows you to only have to have a small amount of success. The issue with the structure of a lot of the major companies is it's become imperative to have great success or it's a loss. Everybody knows that this is a very risky business. The job of an independent label is to be smart and say, "How do we do this in a way that can allow us to build our fanbase and continue to put out music and give it to fans?" And believe me, it doesn't take $100 million to make that happen. It doesn't take $10 million. It doesn't take $5 million! It takes great songs and then a few focused people that are really passionate. So what it's really about is building a company whose business model says, "We're not in the hole so far that if we don't sell a bazillion albums, we're gonna have our shirts be taken off."
LAUNCH: Do you think labels like 3CG point to the direction of the music business in the future?
TAYLOR: You know, I don't know if exactly what we're doing is the future for every artist. I don't know if it's the future of the music business. I do know that we're not the first to want to self-release an album or to have devoted fans or to be passionate about our music. That's happened many times. And it hasn't always worked and it hasn't always not worked. It's been successful many times. But I know that for us, this is really our answer. This is our answer to a really interesting time in the industry and a really interesting time in music and in the world. I think it's an example of what's happening with businesses. I think it's an example of what's happening with the world economy. I mean, I think it all kind of goes together. But our focus is making great music and touching our fans. I do think it would be exciting to see more artists get back to that. And as long as artists are getting back to that idea, and keep their focus on the things that matter, whether they're with a major label or whether they're on a indie label or whether they're playing gigs 300 days a year, that's the right place to be.
ISAAC: Yeah, there is no right or wrong choice for anybody. Every artist has to make a decision for themselves--what they think their position is, where they think they can grow and not grow, what they need to take for themselves and what they need to let someone else deal with. I think in our particular case, we just felt like this was the right decision for us.
TAYLOR: I do think that, like any company or any business, if the music industry doesn't wake up and remember they're not indispensable, they're gonna all fall flat on their faces. You can't just go along and try and set up a pattern that's just going to work every time, like, "If we scrutinize this and develop the scientific structure, then every time we put this out it's going to work over and over and over and we can all sit on our asses and wait for the checks to come." That doesn't work. The key is not major versus minor versus independent. The key is to be focused and to continue to reinvent and to continue to be humbled by the audience. The audience and fans are the only ones that are gonna keep it alive. And that's the danger with the industry right now, is everybody--and I mean everybody--got cocky thinking they didn't have to work to keep their fans excited and keep them coming back to the well. And I think quality control went downhill. The job of artists is to not let that happen, and the job of the future music executives is to be the quarterbacks and continue to say, "Look, I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna be calling the plays. And I'm gonna be setting up these artists to succeed." That's the thing that people are going to respond to.
ISAAC: We've got to always remember that the most important thing, the only people that really matter, are the fans. They're the ones who buy the records. They're the ones who keep all of us afloat. And if you don't respect them and take into consideration how they feel about music on any level...
TAYLOR: You've got the Internet, you've got information everywhere. There's all kinds of different cultures. Everything's thrown together. It's a massive melting pot. You find a lot of great music. It's all there. So our job as artists is to continue to set the bar really high, as far as what the standard is. I mean, the standard should be Prince's live show, not Britney Spears's live show. The standard could be, "Well, I could sing as well as the American Idol people that didn't make it," or "I could sing as well as Aretha Franklin." You've got to set up a standard. That's what we're shooting for.
ZAC: I think, hopefully, when people look at us and they hear our music, the passion has to be there. People have to feel that from music. They have to listen to a song and go, "I feel it. I got it. It's there." It's got to be something more than a vocal track. It's got to be a piece of someone.
LAUNCH: You just mentioned the Internet. The Web's been blamed a lot for the sorry shape of the music industry right now. Do you agree or disagree?
ISAAC: I'd actually like to take this question, 'cause I actually just talked with the L.A. Times about the one-year anniversary of iTunes and all this stuff. The way that I think the Internet has affected things overall is that people now have the ability to research and find music in a way that they didn't have before. Which I think is a massive advantage for an artist and for an audience. But I think there's also this double-edged sword, which is that the industry and artists were slow to recognize the fact that the Internet was not only just a research tool but also a commerce tool. That has been a little bit negative. But I think the end result is that the audience has the opportunity to find music in a more comprehensive way than they ever have. A little band in Tulsa, Oklahoma can post their songs on their website and sell 30,000 records in the Philippines because some fan heard a song, bought the record from the website, and then took it over to a Filipino radio station, and the station loved it and played it, and all of a sudden, their independent record that was made in Tulsa, Oklahoma got released and sold 30,000 copies. I'm talking about a band who actually had that happen--a friend of mine from Tulsa who sold 30,000 records in the Philippines because of the Internet.
ZAC: I think there's a couple of important things to think about when you think about the Internet and you think about music. Neither of them will ever go away. The Internet is here. Music can't disappear. Music is the soundtrack of people's lives. It guides you, it carries you, it helps you through those hard times. It helps you through the happy times. It's indispensable.
TAYLOR: Nuclear holocaust might eliminate the Internet...
ISAAC: Yeah, that's true, but it will eliminate a lot of things.
ZAC: It'd still be rebuilt! [laughs] The Internet is an amazing tool, and it's not going away because there are too many advantages, like the immediate contact with people. And I think what Ike was saying about the ability to have a comprehensive research of music is so true. Fans no longer have to rely on a band's one single on the radio. They can go and find a whole plethora of the music that that band makes, from covers to albums to one-offs with other bands. And hopefully, that can be seeded in the fans and in people who love music and people who buy music. You've just got to support artists. If you love the music they make, then you want to support them by going to concerts, by buying albums--because you want them to release another record. You want them to come out with new songs and new material. You want them to not have to work at Burger King. You want them to be able to focus on making great music that can hopefully change your life and help you make it through.
TAYLOR: We're in an era where the MTV generation of people judges things based on visuals first, and what people are talking about with the Internet is it being a thing that's going to make things more and more fickle, but I actually think it's the absolute opposite of that. I think the Internet is gonna counteract the idea of one-hit wonders because it causes people to actually have great music--because there's so many options that if you don't step up, you're just gonna be at the bottom of the barrel. If you don't step up, you're not even going to get a look because there's so many options and it's so available.
ISAAC: People will only download one of your songs, as opposed to the whole album! As opposed to 12 of your songs, 'cause the other 11 songs kind of suck.
TAYLOR: They don't have to go buy the album. There's not one avenue where you can go to the one department store, like it was 50 years ago, to buy everything. At the department store, it was all there, it was the only place. Now, you've got a million strip malls, and the Internet. Now you can see it all, buy it all, check it out, taste-test it, and then maybe buy it. You hear the song, think it's cool, check it out on the Internet. Boom--there's their website. I think it's gonna be a rebirth for the idea that you can hear the music first before you judge the color, creed, attitude, and dressing style of a particular artist. So artists have to step up.
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